988 Part 2 - Calling the Lifeline

Join us as we talk to Cory Hudnall, New Vista's 988 Coordinator, and find out what it's like to call into and receive calls for 988, the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.

When you're having a mental health crisis, call the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing 988. Your calls are answered by local call centers staffed with trained mental health professionals. If you or someone you know are in crisis, call or text 988 or chat online at 988lifeline.org.

Find out more about New Vista at newvista.org or by calling our 24-Hour Helpline 1.800.928.8000.

Update - In the time since we recorded conversation, there are now 14 Community Mental Health Centers in Kentucky who take calls locally for 988.

Transcript

Nicolas Scott

Hello and welcome to the Good Ahead podcast, where we host conversations around all things mental health. I'm Nicolas Scott, Digital Media Specialist with New Vista.

Dr. Tara Starwalt

And I'm Dr. Tara Starwalt, Community Engagement Specialist here with New Vista. This is the second of a two-part series that we're working on dealing with 988 and all of the services that are offered across the nation. Here in central Kentucky, what I learned from our last episode, is that the 988 crisis line is answered locally by local mental health professionals that can maybe more closely relate to what it is a person's going through on the line. 

We learned from Darcy Miller about the history of 988 and the way that it's been implemented in our area. But last time Nicolas, you promised us an inside, in-depth look at how 988 has been implemented across central Kentucky and the way that it works.

Nicolas Scott

That's right. This week I sat down with Cory Hudnall, New Vista’s 988 Coordinator, and we talked about what it's like when people call into 988, into the lifeline and what it's like when volunteers and staff answer the call. Stick around.

This is Nicolas Scott with the Good Ahead podcast. And I'm here with Cory Hudnall, the 988 Coordinator for New Vista. Cory, we're glad to have you here. Thank you for sitting down and talking to us about your experience with the 988 lifeline. Cory, could you tell us a little bit more about yourself and about your role here at New Vista?

Cory Hudnall

Yeah, So my name is Cory Hudnall and the 90 day Suicide and Crisis Lifeline Coordinator, New Vista. I've had this position for about a year and a half now. Before that, I started working for New Vista in July of 2020 on the Mobile Crisis team. So I would do crisis interventions, emergency assessments with people in the community experiencing mental health crises.

So I'm used to crisis work, emergency situations and mental health. And while I was on that team, we also started to take 988 calls back in 2020, 2021. And that's kind of how I started getting involved in crisis services and the crisis line.

Nicolas Scott

Okay, so 988 as a national hotline was rolled out last July, July 2022. Right.

Cory Hudnall

So, yeah, that was July 17th of 2022. And before that--so it actually started back in 2005, there was some grant stuff that got passed in 2001 nationwide, and that eventually started at 2005 with the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. And so that had been around since June 5 and since then, I think last year, yeah, it was when it changed to the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.

So kind of just going away from strictly suicide prevention to crises and suicide prevention.

Nicolas Scott

So it opened up the net.

Cory Hudnall

That kind of umbrella. Yeah, exactly.

Nicolas Scott

What got you interested in 988 and crisis call coordination?

Cory Hudnall

Yeah, good question. So I had a close uncle growing up and he actually died by suicide in the fall of 2019. It's really affected me and my family. So I recognized how important this work can be. And while I was on the mobile crisis team when we started taking those 988 calls back then in March of 2021, because that's when New Vista started taking the 988 calls.

And before that it was the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. And so that was a ten-digit dialing code, the 1-800-273-8255. But when I first started taking the calls, it was pretty anxiety inducing at first, but then I kind of fell in love with it when I started to recognize how helpful the line can really be to people.

Hearing people say things like, “You know, you got me through the nights. Thank you. We've got a plan for the morning”, and, you know, just hearing that thank you can really make a difference for me.

Nicolas Scott

With the crisis line. Who do you find is calling in?

Cory Hudnall

So I guess if you had to say like, who the crisis line is for? I would say honestly, everybody. We've got everyone calling in. I've had callers as young as 8, 7, 8 years old. And I've had callers, you know, in their mid to late 80s before, too. And so it's a line for pretty much everybody because anybody can experience mental health crisis or thoughts of suicide.

You know even children as young as 8. And you know, since the pandemic, we've seen a lot of that stuff kind of increasing, too. So the line is kind of meant for everybody.

Nicolas Scott

If I if I'm thinking about calling in, what would you say if I if I'm telling myself, “well, no, I don't--I may be struggling with my mental health or I'm in crisis, but I'm not, you know, in the depths of suicidal ideation yet. I don't want to call and bother them.” At what point is it--what's a good metric to tell someone for?

If you hit this threshold? Yeah. You know, you should really should call. Even if it's not, you're at the very end of your rope.

Cory Hudnall

So, like, the nature of a crisis is pretty subjective. So, like, you know, a crisis for one person can be different from another person. And so my kind of rule of thumb is if it's really affecting you and you don't feel like you can talk to anyone about it before it develops into, like thoughts of suicide or, you know, something a little bit more significant than that, or it is, you know, it's a crisis of your own.

So I always say just to call in. We could talk, maybe even get you, you know, a little plan for the night or, you know, we can set you up with a therapy appointment here at New Vista. So that's some different things that we can do.

Nicolas Scott

And if someone calls in and not a grand, in the grand scheme of things, an emergency, like you're not going to be upset. We're happy to help everyone.

Cory Hudnall

Exactly. Exactly. We actually have callers who will say stuff like, “Yeah, I don't want to take up time. I know there's other people who's probably calling in” and I'm like, “You're totally fine. Let's take the time to kind of talk through this and, you know, get you kind of pointed somewhere.”

Nicolas Scott

So, yeah, every voice is important. Every person matters.

Cory Hudnall

Exactly.

Nicolas Scott

When someone calls in, what should they expect?

Cory Hudnall

Yeah. So when you call in, it's going to ask you, I guess it's going to prompt you to choose a network. So there's a couple of different networks besides the general line, which is what we answer here in New Vista. So there's a Veterans line, a Spanish line, and LGBTQIA plus line. And so you get to choose one of those networks by pressing like 1 through 3 on your phone, and it'll provide you that support with a specialized call taker who, you know, understands that type of community a little bit more than maybe someone from our general line.

And so kind of how it looks in Kentucky is there's 13 different community mental health centers that answer 988 calls. And so, you know, we are one of those 13 community mental health centers. We actually cover the central Kentucky area. But that can also kind of look different as well, because the lifeline goes by area code and it's not geolocation and that's really just so that people have that anonymity when they call in so no one can really track them.

They can actually call in and not feel like, you know, someone knows exactly where they're at and what their name is and stuff. So you don't even have to provide your name when you call in to 988, because we like giving people that, you know, autonomy to actually express themselves without fear of judgment or, you know, someone contacting someone they know or something like that.

Nicolas Scott

So you don't to worry because with 911 is geolocated so they can tag where you are. Right. So in 988, you can call in and not be afraid that someone's going to trace it back to you. You have that? Yeah, that right.

Cory Hudnall

Right. And that's kind of the good side of it. The bad side of it is some of our calls aren't from the 17-county area. So central Kentucky, where it's not serving Central Kentuckians. So sometimes people will purchase a phone in like Scott County or whatnot and then go to move in Florida or California. And that call is actually routed to us because it's recorded by the area code.

So we will get those calls. But the vast majority of our calls, about 80% or above, is central Kentuckians.

Nicolas Scott

But you all can still get people to the community call centers that they need to be connected to, right? Like if I move to Florida with my Kentucky number and I call, you all can connect me to a community call center in Florida that can help me find local resources, right?

Cory Hudnall

Yeah, exactly.

Nicolas Scott

Excellent. When people call in to the lifeline, is there an average for how long calls last?

Cory Hudnall

Right. So it kind of varies because some people, you know, maybe they just need to check in, talk for 10-15 minutes. Other people, you know, they could be experiencing like a pretty big crisis. Thoughts of suicide with a plan, intense, that kind of thing. And so those calls to go a little bit longer. The studies that have been done show that about 45 minutes is going to be the right amount of time for someone where if you go over that, you're kind of looping back into their crisis.

You're not really doing a whole lot for them. Under that, you know, maybe you're not giving them the time to express their story and actually listen to what they have to say. So about 45 minutes is that sweet spot for a call. But they can look they can look very different depending on each call. Sometimes we have hang up calls.

Sometimes we have people calling in, asking about CVS as a CVS. No, sorry. This isn’t CVS.

Nicolas Scott

This a crisis line.

Cory Hudnall

Yes.

Nicolas Scott

So you can call, you can talk for as long as you need. And one of the advantages of the lifeline is that it is anonymous. Even though the lifeline is anonymous, is there any way that you all are able to receive any sort of demographic information?

Cory Hudnall

Yeah, that's a great question, because, you know, someone might not want to share their name and kind of be anonymous, But yeah, we'll ask, you know, if they would like to provide their name, if they'd like to, you know, we could ask them about their age, you know, are they located in central Kentucky so we can maybe provide them resources or referrals so that the demographic information is helpful if we can get that.

But if we can't, that's okay too.

Nicolas Scott

Yeah, so it's voluntary. If you're uncomfortable and don’t want to share that, you don't have to.

Cory Hudnall

Exactly.

Nicolas Scott

Great. Just a reminder that if you are experiencing any sort of mental health crisis or emergency to call or text 988, you can also chat online at 988 lifeline.org. Trained mental health professionals are here to help you through whatever you're going through. No problem is too small. Call or text 988.

Dr. Tara Starwalt

You're listening to the Good Ahead podcast brought to you by New Vista, the Certified Community Behavioral Health Clinic, serving 17 Central Kentucky Counties.

Nicolas Scott

We offer resources and supports and the areas of mental health, substance use, developmental and primary care services in order to help individuals and their families live their best lives.

Dr. Tara Starwalt

You can find out more about these resources by contacting our 24-hour helpline at 1-800-928-8000 or you can find us online at newvista.org.

Nicolas Scott

We heard Cory talk about what it's like to call into the line, what you should expect when you dial 988. Now let's hear more about what it's like to receive those calls and deal with the topics that people call in about.

Hello and welcome back. Cory, you said earlier in our conversation that you find it rewarding when people report back, when they say they have a plan, when they say they can make it through the night.

But how do you, how do you deal with these heavy topics being a part of your day to day?

Cory Hudnall

Right. Right. And that's often something we ever expect, too, on these calls is for people to thank us. But whenever they do it, it really does mean a lot. It's pretty rewarding, but something I make sure to do as well as some of my staff and volunteers that we do, is practice a lot of self-care. We make sure to take breaks after stressful calls.

You know, “I just got off of this, you know, pretty long call is pretty intense and I just need to take maybe ten minute walk, 15 minute walk to kind of reset a little bit.” And that's always very helpful for people. And something else with self-care that I personally do is I enjoy running, playing disc golf, going on walks, playing with my cats, and hanging out with friends when I can. My lunch break today I actually went on a 5k run for about half of it. So that was that was fun.

Nicolas Scott

For my lunch break, I ate food.

Cory Hudnall

Oh, nice. I ended up doing that too.

Nicolas Scott

But I'm glad that you have something to keep you active for self-care. You have something that you feel like you can pour back into yourself. Do you feel like that New Vista, that you’re supported in that?

Cory Hudnall

Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Higher management, everyone. My boss, everybody tells me like, “Hey, make sure you take your lunch breaks,” because I have got, I don't know. Sometimes, you know, I'm working, sometimes I need recognize,” Hey, you need to take your lunch. You need to go on a walk.” So now I make it a priority for myself, you know, every 4 hours.

Take that 10-15 minute walk in between, you know, two each, 2 hours. And so now that's a priority for me. And then for my lunches, I try to actually take my lunch now. And, you know, I can do fun things like go on a run if I want to, or a walk during that lunch.

Nicolas Scott

So, yeah, that sounds like a good balance between like having this mission of wanting to work and like you're doing good and important work, but wanting it to be sustainable. Because if you don't have those breaks, you can burn yourself out. And especially with these heavy topics, with dealing with the lifeline of helping people in crisis, yeah, you need to make sure that you're taking care of so that you can take care of them.

Cory Hudnall

Exactly.

Nicolas Scott

It's great that it sounds like you've found this balance. Who's answering the crisis line? So you talk about you, you are, there's a team here. Tell me more about the people who are answering this lifeline right now.

Cory Hudnall

So it's a few different teams right now. We have our help line staff at New Vista. They answer our 24 hour helpline number for people who like to schedule appointments, find resources referrals as well. Our engagement specialists take some of these calls, so these are some of our staff who are communicating with clients on like a pretty regular basis to make sure no one falls through the cracks.

But they're also catching some of these 988 calls. Now, something I'm in charge of is building the 988 team. And so we actually have three staff right now. We have one on first, second and third shift to answer these calls, but we also are building a volunteer team and this is something we've been building for about a year now, a little over a year.

And so that's going to be volunteers.

Nicolas Scott

So it’s volunteers. So who? Who volunteers? You're building this network. You're looking for volunteers. Who, who's the ideal volunteer.

Cory Hudnall

Right? So we're looking really for students maybe interested in internships. Students who I mean, we've also have students who volunteer for us, who aren't looking for internships as well. And they're really just building experience as they're talking to people through these lines. We're also kind of looking at like retired folks as well and people who are really just altruistic people.

They simply do things out of the desire to help people and not because they feel obligated to, but because they really want to help others out of the goodness of their hearts. So that's kind of our audience here. 

Nicolas Scott

That’s great. Here's the thing. It can be heavy if you're dealing with these intense topics. What training or support is there for volunteers? Is it? I imagine it's not just you sign up and then you're merely given a phone. Like what? Right. Yeah. What do we have in place to to help them?

Cory Hudnall

Yeah. So as far as training goes, there's about 40 hours of training that needs to be completed before they can actually silent monitor calls, so listen in on 988 calls because we want them to get that experience before they actually start taking them. And then when they actually go to take calls, I'll listen in to kind of help support the first couple of calls that they have.

Can I answer any questions or if they run into any hurdles, I can help out with that. Some of the training they do have to complete before they get to that point, though, includes a four hour QPR course, which is a question, persuade, refer. Then they also have about 9 to 15 hours of training called the Lifeline Learning Portal, which is a training that's put together by Vibrant, the parent company of 988.

And so that it also includes simulated call scenarios that they have to pass with a score of 80%. So there's, there's quite a few qualifications before they actually start taking calls that they need to get finished first.

Nicolas Scott

So so when you call and you can trust that you're talking to someone who is trained, who is a professional, right? Even if it's a volunteer, they have the support and the training.

Cory Hudnall

Yes. Yeah, they've, they've got all the training completed and they're ready to start answering calls. So.

Nicolas Scott

Excellent. What's the impact of volunteering?

Cory Hudnall

Yeah. So like I was saying earlier, callers would call in and, you know, they recognize the difference in their mood sometimes the beginning of the call, you know, sometimes will answer the call and it's panic attack, anxiety, attack. And you just kind of hear breathing for the first couple of minutes. And sometimes by the end of those calls, they'll be talking to you more and kind of recognize, you know, what's going on, what kind of caused them to start having those emotions or thoughts, feelings.

And so with that, you know, kind of like I was saying earlier, someone who thinks, you at the end of the call, that's really, you know, it feels really good. And so that's kind of the impact of volunteering. And also, I mean, you're saving lives as well. Sometimes people make split second decisions and if they can pick up 988, pick up the phone and dial 999 first and actually talk to someone on the other line, a human being, kind of connect with them, tell their story and address kind of their situation, that's really going to make a difference for them.

Nicolas Scott

And it is much easier to call a three-digit 988 number than the ten-digit previous hotline.

Cory Hudnall

Yes, exactly. Kind of like with 911, you have like an urgent physical kind of thing going on. 988 Supposed to be the flip side of that. If it's a mental health need, that's kind of urgent as well.

Nicolas Scott

Excellent. Where do you where do you see the good ahead?

Cory Hudnall

So something I talk about. So I also teach training called Assist, which is like a two-day, eight hour a day suicide prevention training. And something that we really voice in that training is how, you know, the community as a whole doesn't like to talk about suicide. You know, someone starts saying they have thoughts of suicide and we kind of start squirming.

We're like, oh, you know, we don't really want to talk about that. And so we choose not to. But it's so important to ask people, you know, are you having thoughts of suicide or, you know, you know, are you experiencing a lot right now? And so actually talking to people and facilitating that kind of discussion, that's the type of community we really want to build.

And as 988 becomes more known, you know, Vibrant, the parent company I talked about earlier, they're going to start marketing in the number more so in 2024. So as more people hear about 988 and talk about their mental health than if they're having thoughts of suicide, I think that's going to I think that's where we're going to see that going ahead.

Nicolas Scott

So great. Yeah. Cory, thank you for talking with us. Thank you for for your time for this informative look into the 988 suicide crisis Lifeline. Thank you for the work you do.

Cory Hudnall

Thank you so much. Glad to be here.

Dr. Tara Starwalt

Wow, Nicolas, thank you so much for helping us all get that inside view into what it's like to volunteer for 988. That information can help someone who might need to call 988, feel a little more comfortable with who they're going to talk to with the professional that they're going to speak with. The resources that they're going to receive.

Nicolas Scott

Yeah, I really appreciated Cory talking about and kind of reaffirming, if you listen to our first episode, that even though people call in with heavy topics, there are supports for the call takers that they're not overly burdened. If there is something heavy, they have a way to deal with it. And so for me, it's helpful that if I need to call, I know I can call in and I'm not causing a problem for someone.

Dr. Tara Starwalt

Yeah, that's right. We want to hear from you. Yeah, we are prepared. We're prepared to talk to you on your worst day.

Nicolas Scott

And we want to talk to you, so don't hesitate if you're experiencing any sort of mental health crisis, call or text 988 or once again chat online at 988lifelline.org.

Dr. Tara Starwalt

Nicolas thanks so much. We'll talk to you next time.

Nicolas Scott

Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you next time.

This is the Good Ahead podcast brought to you by New Vista, the Certified Community Behavioral Health Clinic, serving 17 Central Kentucky counties.

Dr. Tara Starwalt

We provide resources to individuals and families in the areas of mental health, substance use, developmental and primary care services to help each person see the good ahead.

Nicolas Scott

Find out more by calling our 24-hour helpline at 1-800-928-8000 or find us online at NewVista.org. Thanks for listening.

Dr. Tara Starwalt

We'll see you next time.